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[barney_chuckles]

Read one of the best racing articles for ages on Friday in 'The Guardian' when a Timeform bod argued the case about where Sea The Stars current ranked in relation to the all-time greats and where he was likely to be rated at the end of his career.

They currently have him on 136 (highest ever Sea Bird on 145) and were very critical of his connections for mapping out the immediate plan of the International and Irish Champion Stakes saying it would be hard for him to better this figure in these races as there is no strength in depth in either heat.

Timeform were adamant that he had the potential to break into the 'super 12' (dozen horses rated 140+ since 1945) but to do so connections would have to be more ambitious and stop 'mollycoddling him'.  To improve his rating any further they claimed that 'he really would have to run in the Arc and beat a good field, like the one Dancing Brave beat.  Or go to the Breeders' Cup Classic and give weight and a beating to Zenyatta'.

So do we agree with Timeform???  Personally, I would.  He has obviously achieved a very high level of form but to break into upper echelon I concur that he must achieved something very special at the top, top table.

[Brownie3]

In my humble opinion, the campaign mapped out by Oxx and his connections, lends itself to the requirements needed at stud, maybe something that wasn't at the forefront of everybodys mind in years gone by.

Today, the emphasis is on speed over stamina, this winning the 3 flagship races over 10f, is more important than say the Arc and Leger.

However, really the campaign is logical to me, I mean what other races could he have run in? Hard to run in a King George and Eclipse, so close together. York and the Irish champion are spaced well, and tbh imo he won't get his ground at Longchamp in October. I think he will run at the Breeders Cup, because again you can't guarantee the ground for the QE2 or Champion at Ascot & Newmarket respectively.

As for ratings, he's one of the best of the last 10 years I'd say.
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I bet Jamie is the only one in the Spencer household that gives a bad ride!

Daily Premiership Champ - April, June, Sept & Oct 2008, May, Sept 2009
Weekend Champ - Dec 2008, Jan, Feb, May, July, Aug, Sept 2009
Daily Championship Champ - Dec 2008

[DunfieNags]

best since Nashwan surely?

[Brownie3]

Peintre Celebre, Montjeu, Galileo, Zarkava, Dalakhani (Spellings sorry).....but many to choose from!
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I bet Jamie is the only one in the Spencer household that gives a bad ride!

Daily Premiership Champ - April, June, Sept & Oct 2008, May, Sept 2009
Weekend Champ - Dec 2008, Jan, Feb, May, July, Aug, Sept 2009
Daily Championship Champ - Dec 2008

[Brownie3]

I put in Montjeu and Galileo, not only for there success on the track, bu also at Stud.
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I bet Jamie is the only one in the Spencer household that gives a bad ride!

Daily Premiership Champ - April, June, Sept & Oct 2008, May, Sept 2009
Weekend Champ - Dec 2008, Jan, Feb, May, July, Aug, Sept 2009
Daily Championship Champ - Dec 2008

[tetinj]

Personally, I think he is over rated at the moment. The Derby form has looked weaker with almost every run. I can't believe the references to other greats such as Montheu, Galileo, Nashwan, etc.

I would have to agree with Timeform's observations regards his campaign but in these days of commercial gain first you can understand the path chosen for him. The International is normally a very good race but J Oxx can't do anything about other trainers running scared so what can he do?

The Arc appears to have become Europe's most important middle race in the last ten years or so but the dilemma for Sea The Stars connections is his dependence on fast ground. An indication alone to me that he is not the wonder horse some would have us believe.

His only chance therefore appears to be a particularly good win in the Breeders Cup against quality opposition. By that time he will have been on the go for six consecutive months. It's a possibility therefore that he could get beat.
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Thinking differently is the only way to win at this game. Even if it makes you look a fool sometimes!

[jrparky]

Given the performance yesterday I would have to say that he is clearly a very very good horse and has an outstanding chance to finish the year unbeaten, whichever 2 races the Oxx team decide to go for.

I hope that they go for the Arc, but the Irish Champion/Breeders Cup route is surely the one they will plump for and the one that sees them most likely of success.

[jejquade]

Mick Kinane has declared he is the best he's ever ridden. And he has ridden a fair few good ones of the years.

Also STS broke the track record too.

[tetinj]

Undoubtedly the horse is good but I don't understand on what basis people make the comparisons with past greats.

So far the horse has won a Guineas which still looks a weak one. One subsequent winner won a dodgy Irish Guineas  which looked way inferior to the English version. The other won at Royal Ascot where it was revealed prior to that he had bee suffering foot problems. The one subsequent positive from the Guineas other than SOS himself was the Sussex Stakes winner.

The Derby form looks weaker with every run so no world beaters in there.

The Eclipse only had one serious opponent in it (Conduit) who was running over a trip on the short side.

Yesterday he wins a race that was effectively a match against a horse he has already beaten.

What has he beaten that puts him in the same league as Montjeu, Galileo, Nashwan as put forward by others?
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Thinking differently is the only way to win at this game. Even if it makes you look a fool sometimes!

[DunfieNags]