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Matttobin



Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 532


Location: Southampton

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely you must agere that the ride Sam Thomas gave Denman was awful?!

If that was the ride he was instructed to give then Denman was clearly rushed back and then to put him on another unsuitable track was just shocking to see him rushed into it all after the lay off he had.

With a better jockey (fingers crossed AP) and a better ride I dont think its as much as a forgegone conclusion that Kauto will be victor that you think! Im not saying he wont win, but who's to say a healthy Denman with a nice easy summer doesnt come back in the 2008 form....?

There is only one certainty in life....!
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DunfieNags



Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Posts: 1097


Location: Dunfermline

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At Cheltenham or at Aintree? Both  :?
Thomas is a joke, he got the Denman ride basically cos he steered a fantastic horse around against a bunch of low/middle class handicappers at Newbury. I weigh a bit more than 12st but I reckon I could have got him home in front that day!  xshock

I really hope you are right, in that I really hope a fully fit Denman does turn up. But remember he only beat a half fit Kauto aswell, so getting both of them there in one piece and 100% healthy would make for a fantastic race.
Yes, with AP on board then Denman naturally would be a tougher opponent, but to me what he doesn't have is the pure class and the turn of foot that the Star has. Yes Denman can run opponents into the ground, but other than the Gold Cup in 2008 against a half fit Kauto and a basically poor field after that, he hasn't done it at the very top level.

If Kauto had been 100% in 2008 he'd have picked Denman up between the last two when Denman was clearly running out of steam.

Fingers crossed they both get there.
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Matttobin



Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 532


Location: Southampton

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheltenham in particular i havent actually seen the aintree one as i was working, like you say Denman doesnt have a turn of foot he's got a cruising speed that will find out other horses stamina so riding him in 3rd or 4th for the first circuit and staying a length in front halfway around the second i think he did well to finish second. Kauto and most horses who run grade one races would beat that.

we can sit here and make excuses as to why Kauto didnt win in 2008 and why Denman didnt win in 2009, however Mr Nicholls says he wont run horses unless they are fully fit. That being said our excuses dont hold any stature, unless however Mr Nicholls tells fibs.....
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DunfieNags



Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Posts: 1097


Location: Dunfermline

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect for 361 days of the year he's maybe right.... for the other 4 however....   xlol
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tetinj



Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 402


Location: Wirral

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Dunf,

Yes it was me who doubted Kauto all of last year and was blown away by his Gold Cup performance. As you say I can currently only see injury barring another win at present but nothing stays the same for long in racing.
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Thinking differently is the only way to win at this game. Even if it makes you look a fool sometimes!
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Matttobin



Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 532


Location: Southampton

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There were whispers that Master Minded may be on a decline, i cant remember i heard that but that backs up what up what Tetinj says about nothing staying the same in racing.
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DunfieNags



Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Posts: 1097


Location: Dunfermline

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I certainly wouldn't be taking even money about the beast at this time, but might be a bit early to say he's in decline?
Whilst I can never see Big Zeb beating him at Cheltenham, there may be something else lurking ready to have a proper go at him next year. I know Big Zeb got close at Punchestown but that's a flatter track and on a slower surface. At top speed round Cheltenham I can't see anything other than more falls for this poor fella.

So who could be the threats? Arkle form usually stands up which means you have to pay close attention to both ForPadyDePlasterer and Kalahari King if they stayed at 2m next year. Probably certain for the latter but maybe not Pady. Another novice I was taken with was Tartak, who seemed to improve for the step up to 2m 4f at Aintree, but ran a credible 5th in the Arkle and is definitely one to keep on the right side of next year. My only concern re him is that he will have the dreaded S Thomas up top.
Of course if they felt like having a go with Mikael D'Haguenet...... then you're really talking.  xmasgrin
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Brownie3
Moderator


Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 1049


Location: Leeds, Yorkshire

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please see my thread in 5 mins about Master Minded!

:-)



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